Date is 2013-03-07, times are UTC+01.
23:00 <+alanc> hello 23:00 <Bart_Massey> howdy! 23:00 <marcoz> heyo 23:01 <agd5f> hi 23:02 <+anholt> hi 23:02 <stukreit> hello 23:03 <Bart_Massey> Five of us, anyhow. Missing keithp, anholt. Who else? 23:04 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: anholt is here 23:04 <Bart_Massey> Oops. I fail reading comprehension forever 23:04 <+alanc> I saw stukreit in the hall earlier 23:04 <+alanc> oh, wait, I failed too 23:04 <stukreit> alan fails too 23:04 <Bart_Massey> OK, I guess that's everybody but keithp? 23:04 <Bart_Massey> Anyway, let's get started 23:05 <+anholt> marcoz: are you set up for accounts to get elections running? 23:05 <marcoz> i still have no access to anything. 23:06 <+anholt> so, I don't see email from you to sitewranglers, or a request on bugzilla 23:06 <marcoz> did you see the sitewranglers ticket? 23:06 <marcoz> sigh... 23:06 <+anholt> you also said something about "nabble", which confused me 23:06 <marcoz> what is the link I should be using? 23:07 <+anholt> freedesktop bugzilla? 23:07 <marcoz> specific URL please 23:07 <+anholt> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ 23:07 <+alanc> every time I mail sitewranglers I get a moderation message - does someone drain the moderation queue regularly? 23:07 <+anholt> yes/no: drains, but extremely irregularly 23:08 * alanc is tempted to mail sitewranglers a "Told you so!" followup to my "please turn off wiki account creation" mail now that jrayhawk found part of the fd.o website problem is the 388 thousand moin accounts 23:09 <marcoz> product: freedesktop.org ? what component? 23:09 <Bart_Massey> alanc: 388K active wiki editors is *awesome*! Think of how they're improving our web presence!! 23:09 <+anholt> admin or new accounts -- I don't think anyone searches based on those 23:10 <+alanc> I'm not sure "503 Guru Meditation" really counts as an improvement, but it's about the same as the usefulness of some of our web pages 23:11 * Bart_Massey pauses for a moment of Guru Meditation 23:11 <agd5f> marcoz: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountRequests you can probably use this as a template. just adjust the bug to request elections stuff 23:11 <Bart_Massey> I need to get in touch with jrayhawk again and we need to get our web infrastructure under control 23:12 <marcoz> ok, ticket submitted. 23:12 <+alanc> he and keithp were talking on #freedesktop earlier today 23:13 <marcoz> anholt: can you check if it's in the queue? 23:13 <Bart_Massey> Meanwhile: Does somebody want to send a response to Wayland Crowdsource person? It seems like the consensus of the Board is that this is something we don't really want to take on at this time? 23:13 <stukreit> do we need to vote on it? 23:14 <Bart_Massey> We can. Any discussion before I make a motion? 23:14 <agd5f> I don't remember the wayland crowd source request? what was it about? 23:14 <stukreit> i suppose the rejection is because it is beyond our scope and definition 23:14 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I don't think so. 23:14 <stukreit> agd5f: email from late yesterday 23:14 <+alanc> it seems like if Wayland needed more paid programmers, Intel or someone could hire them 23:15 <Bart_Massey> I'm against it just because it's more Board work than I want to take on at a time when we have other things on our plate. 23:15 <+anholt> marcoz: for asking for an account, you probably need the other information on accountrequests, like ssh pubkey and account name 23:15 <+alanc> much easier for them to add more programmers than us becoming an employer and having to deal with payroll & other HR headaches 23:15 <Bart_Massey> I'm much more concerned with general X.Org Foundation funding, in particular, than funding for a specific project. 23:15 <stukreit> actually, link it to our bylaws: we are not an org about hiring programmers. we're an educational non profit 23:15 <Bart_Massey> Yes, we definitely have a policy of not hiring developers. 23:15 <stukreit> so that's the reason 23:15 <Bart_Massey> (Except students.) 23:16 <agd5f> Ah, I missed that one, reading now 23:16 <stukreit> evoc is not a real hiring. its an internship basically 23:16 <Bart_Massey> But we certainly are an org that could do Wayland fund-raising to be administered by some Wayland group. 23:16 <Bart_Massey> But as I said, if we're going to do fund-raising this year, IMHO it needs to be for plain ol' X. 23:17 <stukreit> so I see this as a way to put out our mission statement 23:17 <+alanc> could also link him to "The Mythical Man Month" - "adding more programmers to an already late project makes it even later" 23:17 <Bart_Massey> Move to politely decline the offer of help with crowdsourcing Wayland funding, due to perceived conflicts with the role of the Board. +1? 23:17 <stukreit> please, i'm serious. this can be an exercise in declaring our corporate position 23:18 <stukreit> +1 I'd like to work with whomever writes the note. I'm willing to start it. 23:18 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Yes, I think we can make it clear what our position is in our response 23:18 <marcoz> which email is this? I'm not seeing one. 23:18 <+alanc> +1 23:18 <+anholt> +1 23:18 <agd5f> probably makes more sense to fund evoc wayland projects that some big wayland project 23:19 <agd5f> marcoz: subject "Would crowdfunding Wayland development make sense?" 23:19 <stukreit> the issue here is how we explain our rejection of his offer 23:19 <+alanc> "Would crowdfunding Wayland development make sense?" to email@example.com last night 23:20 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: If you would like to draft a response to him, emphasizing our position as a Board that we don't want to directly hire developers, that would be awesome... 23:20 <marcoz> Hmmm, nothing. Can one of you forward that to me? 23:21 <agd5f> marcoz: done 23:21 <marcoz> thanks, got it. 23:21 <stukreit> yes I'll do that. Does anyone here think that the premise of his letter is valid? ie. could it happen? 23:21 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: IDK. 23:22 <agd5f> realistically... no 23:22 <+anholt> seems quite unlikely 23:22 <stukreit> I guess wayland might be the wrong vehicle, because it already has much corporate sponsorship 23:22 <stukreit> And does anyone here take seriously the "threat" of Mir? 23:22 <Bart_Massey> On a related topic: Two things about the Ubuntu Y..er..Mir Window System announcement 23:22 <Bart_Massey> Yeah, me too 23:23 <Bart_Massey> So, two questions: What, if anything, do we want to say publicly as a Board about it? 23:23 <agd5f> it's not really our decision as the board to decide whether mir or wayland or something else is "better" 23:23 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: Wayland is something we have agreed is part of the X.Org umbrella; Mir definitely is not 23:23 <+alanc> the developer of FreeType has raised ~ $15k via crowdfunding, a far cry from a full time developer salary 23:23 <stukreit> not asking for adecision, just impressions of where things are going. 23:24 <+keithp> Bart_Massey: jrayhawk wants to meet tomorrow to talk about wikis 23:24 <+keithp> do you have time for breakfast? 23:24 <Bart_Massey> I would suggest we make a highly supportive and encouraging announcement re Mir. 23:24 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Yep let's do it 23:24 <stukreit> +1 23:24 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: sure, but if mir suddenly took off and there was an evoc student that had a good mir proposal... 23:24 <Bart_Massey> Emphasize that we think that it would be fantastic if Canonical could replace X on desktop in 12 months. 23:25 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: All I meant is that we haven't yet taken a position on Mir. 23:25 <stukreit> save us all so much grief 23:25 <+alanc> amazing, astounding, unbelievable 23:25 <agd5f> right 23:25 * alanc stops just short of "utterly impossible" 23:25 <Bart_Massey> Given that Mir is a single-corporation effort, I don't think it's appropriate for us to be supporting it, but that's just my position... 23:26 <Bart_Massey> I'll draft a Mir announcement for the Board to review. 23:26 <stukreit> would be nice to get out infront of comments by some of our beloved bloggers. 23:26 <Bart_Massey> Second question: How does Mir impact our ability to raise funds for X.Org in the short term? 23:26 <Bart_Massey> Is it going to hurt us? Badly? 23:27 <stukreit> My management won't care. 23:27 <agd5f> probably not much in the short term 23:27 <stukreit> imho it doesn't matter 23:27 <Bart_Massey> Good. 23:27 <marcoz> how would it hurt? other than splitting already scarce resources. or is that what you are getting at? 23:27 <+alanc> would think most of our contributors wouldn't care that much - probably can't count on much from Canonical though, but I don't think they've ever given us cash 23:28 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: Sometimes companies want to fund "the next big thing" rather than "same ol same ol" 23:28 <Bart_Massey> Anyway, sounds like everyone is pretty sanguine. 23:28 <+anholt> I don't imagine many people seeing mir as the next big thing. 23:28 <Bart_Massey> Which is good, because I think that's the next big thing. 23:28 <stukreit> I'm not anticipating "hurt", I'm dreamily thinking about when I'll see "the year of the *nix desktop" 23:28 <Bart_Massey> Stabilizing X.Org funding, I mean 23:29 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Sadly, I doubt we'll ever see another "year of the desktop", period :-) 23:29 <agd5f> I mean if mir took off, we could support it as well 23:29 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: I think only if it wasn't a totally Canonical-centric effort, though... 23:29 <stukreit> I've started nudging on my side. Keith was helping me wrestle Intel a few years ago, but it fizzled out. 23:29 <agd5f> sure. I mean if it took off and there were suddenly a lot of community developers behind it 23:30 <stukreit> We're all enjoying the year (month) of the smartphone, pad, and soon flexible screentop. 23:30 <Bart_Massey> So what I need everyone to do is to do what stukreit is doing: figure out where we're going to get money from. 23:30 <agd5f> basically developer interest leads us 23:30 <Bart_Massey> My goal is to get a recurring income of $25K-$50K for the Foundation 23:31 <Bart_Massey> This should about offset our current expenses, if I understand them right. 23:31 <agd5f> maybe get a donate button on the website for starters? 23:31 <stukreit> funding: one component is a totally optional request to the membership so we can have >50% individual donations 23:31 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: Yes, the dollar amount from the website donations will unlikely be large, but it's important for getting our individual donations for 501(c)3 and for letting people feel like they're participating 23:32 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I think we only need 10%, no? 23:32 <stukreit> I don't remember, need to look it up. 23:32 <Bart_Massey> agd5f?: 10%, isn't it? 23:32 <agd5f> yeah, 10%, I was wrong last time 23:32 <Bart_Massey> OK, we're good. 23:32 <Bart_Massey> Does anyone have a contact at the Mozilla Corp they could approach? 23:33 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Are you better than me at asking Google for money? 23:33 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Can you poke at Intel again? 23:33 <Bart_Massey> What about AMD? Even NVidia? Smaller graphics companies? 23:34 <stukreit> How about LTSP. They should be concerned with our viability 23:34 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I hate to try to take "secondary funds" from folks who are nonprofit already... 23:34 <Bart_Massey> Would prefer to get money from commercial sponsors directly 23:34 <+anholt> agreed 23:35 <stukreit> ok. then let's go down the corp. list. We have contacts in AMD (Bridgeman) and Nvidia (...i forgot.) 23:36 <+alanc> Andy & Aaron 23:36 <agd5f> I can try at AMD 23:36 <+alanc> also, agd5f for AMD 23:36 <stukreit> oh yeah, sorry 23:36 <Bart_Massey> What is signature authority for corps these days? $5K? 23:37 <+alanc> the corp I work for has sliding scales - each level up the org chart has higher spending authority 23:38 <Bart_Massey> I guess what I'm asking is vaguely "at what level of request is it now non-trivial, so we might as well ask for a lot?" 23:38 <Bart_Massey> Should we be looking for 5-7 commitments at $5K each, or 1-2 at $25K each? 23:38 <Bart_Massey> Or some combination of the two? 23:39 <stukreit> I used to pull $10/year from Sun, so I was thinking along those lines for Oracle. I mentioned that number to my mgr last week. 23:39 <agd5f> I'd say a combination 23:40 <Bart_Massey> OK! Well, I think it's not too early to say "let's get started". I will keep bugging all y'all every mtg (assuming I get re-elected) and we'll see how it goes. LMK if I can help in any way. 23:41 <Bart_Massey> My goal is to end the year with (a) at least as much money in the bank as we started with, and (b) a plan for maintaining that 23:41 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: speaking of reelection. elections needs your (updated) statement. 23:41 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: Yeah, I know. I'll try to get it in today. 23:41 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Speaking of "the bank"... :-) 23:41 * alanc needs to send in mine too 23:41 <marcoz> thanks guys 23:42 <stukreit> we spent around $25k last year 23:42 <Bart_Massey> That's what I thought. What I was wondering about was progress changing banks... 23:42 <stukreit> I have 200 words blurb. guess I'll send it around. 23:42 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Awesome. Please do. 23:43 <Bart_Massey> OK, one more item of business, at least. GSoC. Are we doing it? If so, who is taking point this time? 23:43 <stukreit> I feel like I oughta have about 10 questions to ask banks. Maybe fewer, but enough to get a solid takeaway. I fear talking to banks is like talking to the phone company. 23:44 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Let's take that conversation offline. 23:44 <marcoz> (jic) i'll help with evoc, but my plate is too full for gsoc 23:44 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Can you summarize in an email for stukreit what we already know about banks? 23:45 <Bart_Massey> I really only want to do Portland State GSoC this year, so I'm out. (I've got big plans here...) 23:45 <agd5f> we could request gosc help from the membership 23:45 <Bart_Massey> Does somebody want to post to devel and see if any obviously-qualified non-Board-Members pop up? 23:45 <agd5f> see if anyone bites 23:46 * Bart_Massey jinxes agd5f 23:46 <agd5f> I'll email the xorg-devel list about it 23:46 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: Thanks! 23:46 <+alanc> marcheu has said he doesn't have time to do it again 23:47 <marcoz> yes, thanks agd5f 23:47 <+alanc> but after, what, 4 years, he deserves a break 23:47 <mupuf> sorry to pop in, but do we even have project ideas? 23:47 <Bart_Massey> Donnie Berkholz has done in the past; you might beg him, although I know he's crazy busy too 23:47 <+alanc> don't we also need to discuss XDC dates today? 23:47 <Bart_Massey> mupuf: We always have project ideas, but whoever take Org Admin will definitely have to build an epic Ideas Page this time... 23:47 <Bart_Massey> alanc: Yes, thanks! 23:49 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Are any of those dates out for you? Because if they are, given that you and I are doing local arrangements... 23:51 <Bart_Massey> It sounds like (d) 9/25-9/27 works the best for the most people. 23:51 <Bart_Massey> Any objections to that date? 23:52 <stukreit> can't get to calendar.. 23:52 <+anholt> looks great to me 23:52 <+alanc> that seemed to be the consensus in email 23:52 <agd5f> yeah 23:53 <Bart_Massey> OK, I am officially declaring that XDC 2013 will be 9/25-9/27 in Portland, Oregon USA. 23:53 <Bart_Massey> (Declaration subject to actually securing the space. Will try today.) 23:54 <Bart_Massey> We're past out of time. Any other emergency business? 23:54 <+alanc> none here 23:54 <Bart_Massey> Thanks all! See you in a couple of weeks!