Date is 2012-06-07, times are UTC+02.

22:59 <+alanc> good afternoon
22:59 <marcoz> good evening and good night.
23:00 <agd5f> hello
23:00 <+alanc> I guess we have to include good morning for our australian & asian friends
23:00 <+emmes> hello and almost good night
23:01 <stukreit> hi
23:01 <+Bart_Massey> Hey all
23:02 <+Bart_Massey> ping
23:02 <+alanc> hello
23:03 <marcoz> Hi Bart
23:03 <+Bart_Massey> Howdy!
23:03 <+alanc> sorry, we'd just all said hello right before you got here
23:03 <+Bart_Massey> cool
23:03 <+Bart_Massey> who all do we have today?
23:04 <+alanc> stukreit, emmes & agd5f were here a minute ago
23:04 <marcoz> I'm here. 
23:05 <+Bart_Massey> cool
23:05 <+keithp> hey ho
23:05 <+Bart_Massey> Sounds like most of us
23:05 <+Bart_Massey> Presumably anholt will be back in a moment
23:05 <+keithp> Bart_Massey: anholt has a conflicting meeting
23:05 <agd5f> me too
23:05 <+Bart_Massey> Are these regular or one-time conflicts?
23:05 <agd5f> me too as in I'm here, not a meeting
23:06 <+Bart_Massey> We could try to find another meeting time if this is proving to be a problem for people...
23:06 <+Bart_Massey> Actually, 1s
23:07 <+Bart_Massey> No, I'm OK for this time.
23:07 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, let's go ahead and start; if folks want to talk about changing the mtg time we can do that in parallel.
23:07 <+Bart_Massey> First order of business: we seem to have another EVoC app? This program is really taking off all of the sudden.
23:08 <marcoz> Yes we have Blaz Tomazic
23:08 <+Bart_Massey> I'm thinking that (a) it might be nice to have a committee (not necessarily all Board members) to decide these rather than the whole Board, but I'm good either way.
23:08 <marcoz> I'm on a windows box and can't do the special chars. sorry for the lettering
23:09 <marcoz> did everyone have a chance to review the proposal and look over the notes I gathered?
23:09 <+Bart_Massey> (b) We need to start thinking about funding for this. If we're going to have a half-dozen of these running at a time, the general X.Org budget will take a fairly big hit.
23:09 <marcoz> I sent two emails to everyone, hopefully in ample time.
23:09 <marcoz> from what I can tell, this is kinda  an abnormal spike
23:10 <marcoz> not that I'm complaining. 
23:10 <+emmes> Bart_Massey: you mentioned relaxing the (not-yet-in-place) accepted-patch-policy
23:10 <+alanc> presumably some of these would have gone for GSoC, had we gotten in this year
23:10 <+emmes> I think we can relax it to have-shown-some-work-with-open-source-projects or the like
23:10 <+emmes> alanc: indeed
23:10 <+Bart_Massey> emmes: Yeah, I would relax it to "evidence that the student has the skills to succeed" or somesuch.
23:10 <marcoz> summary and overview:
23:11 <+Bart_Massey> I'm not even sure that previous open source is necessary: just some kind of solid evidence that the student can code and work with others
23:11 <+Bart_Massey> and has whatever specific skills the proposal entails
23:11 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Thanks for the nice summary, and for all your work on these.
23:11 <+emmes> yes, but how do you phrase this?
23:12 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: You're welcome.  I hope it's sufficient. I'm working on my EVoC coordinator skills. 
23:12 <+Bart_Massey> I thought I just did :-)
23:12 <+alanc> previous open source experience helps show that there's potential for becoming a long term contributor, and is less likely to just take the first check and disappear
23:12  * Bart_Massey meant that last for emmes
23:12 <marcoz> emmes: yea, I'm good with Bart's wording.  it's succinct.
23:13 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: sure, and I definitely don't want that, but I also want to appear open to skilled outsiders who look promising and want to figure out OSS.
23:13 <+Bart_Massey> Let's face it: a lot of our mentoring is or can be about things like how to get your patches accepted, not just how to code
23:14 <+Bart_Massey> But yeah, it's a fine line.
23:14 <+Bart_Massey> That's why I worded it a little vaguely: I suspect we can figure it out on a case-by-case basis unless we get another giant jump in proposals
23:15 <+alanc> I think we still get few enough of these proposals that we don't need to establish rules at the same rigor as GSoC, so I'd be fine with bart's proposed "some kind of solid evidence" rule, and leaving it to the board/committee to evaluate each case on its merits
23:15 <+emmes> also, we have to keep in mind that we represent open source. from my experience people who have *never* worked with open source guys before can be... difficult to work with in our environment
23:15 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: You're doing great with EVoC. It's nice to see this program working.
23:15 <+alanc> +1
23:15 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: I'm taking your statement as a motion, seconding, and voting +1
23:15 <agd5f> +1
23:15 <+emmes> but I'm fine if we do that on a case-by-case basis, unless we're getting swamped with proposals
23:15 <+emmes> +1
23:15 <+alanc> also, you've got multiple students to coordinate at once, a huge spike over our previous coordinator's record of one at a time
23:16 <+keithp> Best to give us flexibility and not attempt to actually write down rigid rules +1
23:16 <+Bart_Massey> Our previous coordinator *failed* at one student at a time :-)
23:16 <+Bart_Massey> OK, motion passed.
23:16 <+Bart_Massey> Move to accept Blaz's proposal.
23:17  * Bart_Massey hopes it is clear that I mean me by "previous coordinator"
23:17 <+alanc> that's who I meant 8-)
23:17 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Oh. sorry
23:17 <+Bart_Massey> :-)
23:17 <+alanc> sorry?  for agreeing with me that you were the previous one?
23:18 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Just sorry in general :-)
23:18 <+Bart_Massey> So any discussion before we vote my motion on Blaz?
23:18 <marcoz> Does anyone have any questions, comments or concerns on his proposal and info?
23:19 <+emmes> looking good, we desperately need test cases everywhere, and you seem to be fine with it :)
23:19 <+alanc> anyways, for this proposal, I'm going to have to trust the technical judgement of anholt & stellard who gave their thumbs up
23:19 <+keithp> yeah, we've delegated review to people who know the code :-)
23:19 <+Bart_Massey> Can I get some +1s?
23:19 <marcoz> Tom and Eric looked it over and nodded in approval. Tom, tstellar, is here as well
23:20 <agd5f> +1
23:20 <+emmes> +1 from my side
23:20 <+alanc> +1
23:21 <+Bart_Massey> BTW, amend my motion to indicate funding at the US$5000 level, usual payment schedule, Tom to mentor.
23:21 <+Bart_Massey> We have four +1s, need one more
23:21 <+emmes> Didn't Eric already implictly vote?
23:21 <+keithp> +1
23:21 <+alanc> yeah, should have asked that, since      12-16 weeks left it unclear if we were following a 3 month or 4 month payment schedule
23:22 <+Bart_Massey> Any objections to $5000? 
23:22 <+Bart_Massey> emmes: Just like the explicit +1s for the record
23:22 <+alanc> +1 for Bart's amendment
23:22 <+Bart_Massey> Yeah, I guess we should take a full vote on that also
23:23 <+Bart_Massey> Need three more +1s on the amendment, and then we're done with Blaz.
23:23 <marcoz> from his proposal:  "The proposed 12 week plan is optimistic, but if some step will take more then expected it can be extended to 16 weeks (or more if I will have time). I don’t have any exams over the summer, only one small paper to write."
23:23 <+emmes> ok, +1
23:23 <agd5f> +1
23:23 <+keithp> +1
23:24 <+Bart_Massey> And both motions are carried. Congrats to Blaz, many thanks to Tom.
23:24 <+Bart_Massey> keithp: Do you have any idea who we might approach about getting some ongoing funding for EVoC specifically? Google seems right out. :-)
23:24  * Bart_Massey really means keithp or anyone...
23:25 <+keithp> Bart_Massey: with our new 501(c)3 status, we should be able to pass the hat around various corporations
23:25 <tstellar> When does the 12 week period start? Today?
23:25  * Bart_Massey seems obsessed with /me today
23:25 <+Bart_Massey> tstellar: Whenever you two like.
23:25 <marcoz> he says he's available immediately. I vote for Monday since it'll make the book keeping simpler
23:25 <+Bart_Massey> keithp: Yeah, but I don't know how or who.
23:25 <marcoz> from his proposal: "On this project I plan to work full-time for 12-16 weeks, starting immediately when (and if) I get accepted to X.Org EVoC."
23:25 <+Bart_Massey> Let's let tstellar, Blaz and stukreit sort out the start time
23:26 <tstellar> marcoz: Ok, sounds good.
23:26 <+alanc> did we ever get our last $15k donation from Intel straightened out and deposited?
23:26 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: wha? this is not something I remember talking about
23:26 <marcoz> i'm good with tstellar and blaz working out the starting date as well. though I would push for a Monday
23:26 <+alanc> oh, and are we going to announce to our membership (or at least to people not on the board list) that the IRS approved our 501(c)3?
23:26 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: That seems like a really, really good idea.
23:27 <+Bart_Massey> Want to draft and send something? :-)
23:27 <tstellar> marcoz: Can I tell him he was accepted, or should I wait for an official notification from the board?
23:27 <marcoz> i htink you just did. ;)
23:27 <agd5f> why would we not want to tell people?
23:27 <+Bart_Massey> tstellar: You may tell him anytime
23:27 <marcoz> tstellar: go ahead. I'll send him and email and cc you but you don't need to wait on me.
23:27 <+alanc> I seem to remember stukreit having to work with keithp & others to get money delivered from Intel's promised funding of one of the recent XDC's
23:27 <+emmes> i think we already add agreed on that on the board mailing list - but we can vote again here to make this official
23:28 <+emmes> (talking about making the 501 status public)
23:28 <stukreit> I guess I should put some words together on the 501 thing
23:28 <+keithp> alanc: getting mony out of intel is always hard
23:28 <+alanc> we agreed that Justin could tell the people on flossfoundations
23:28 <stukreit> I don't believe we ever got that money from intel
23:28 <+Bart_Massey> Somebody needs to actually write a note and send it to the lists
23:28 <+alanc> I can write a note and send it to members
23:28 <+Bart_Massey> re intel money: ow. This was 8 months ago?
23:28 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Thanks much!
23:29 <+alanc> I've already used the "voice of the foundation" for an announcement once this week 8-)
23:29 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Thanks as always!
23:29 <+alanc> speaking of flossfoundations, is anyone on that mailing list or should one of us join?
23:29 <+Bart_Massey> Is there any chance we can still get this $15K out of Intel, or is it gone now?
23:29 <+Bart_Massey> I'm not on, and don't do well at keeping up with email. Yes, probably someone should be there. Volunteers?
23:29 <stukreit> wasn't that several years ago?
23:30 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: If it was for a conference before the most recent one, I suspect there's no chance. sigh.
23:30 <+alanc> thinking it was for the France conference
23:30 <+alanc> which I guess is almost 2 years ago now
23:31 <stukreit> agreed. The only thing to do is start a new round of requests to our behemoth overlords.
23:31 <+Bart_Massey> Yeah, note for the record that we've abandoned that funding opportunity
23:31 <+alanc> so have we had any money come in at all since then?   should have also gotten some google money last year
23:31 <+Bart_Massey> We definitely need to do better at tracking this stuff: fortunately stukreit is on the job now
23:31 <+alanc> and should start thinking soon about XDC2012 sponsorship requests
23:31 <+Bart_Massey> marcheu should know the situation with Google money
23:32 <stukreit> I was dl'ing the past 12 months of bank statements, but I don't recall handling any input from google. keithp: Did you somehow funnel it?
23:32 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: I'm ok with joining.  though should we have a more email address?
23:32 <+Bart_Massey> "Could you please offer to give us some money for this year's conference? We promise we won't actually ask for it."
23:32 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Ask sitewranglers for an address. I think is still open :-)
23:33 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: will do.
23:33 <marcoz> stukreit: EVoc related,  any luck with the bank stuff to India?
23:33 <+Bart_Massey> I definitely didn't run last year's GSoC money through PSU: marcheu handled it himself IIRC
23:33 <stukreit> I do have 2 details re treasuring to bring up
23:33 <stukreit> India?
23:34 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: India bank stuff?
23:34 <marcoz> 2 of 3 (now 4) evoc students are in India
23:34 <stukreit> I've been working on doing a wire transfer to Francesco in Berlin.  I asked him for his bank routing info.
23:35 <stukreit> I can make the same data request to the evoc students. Do I have email from you or them?
23:35 <marcoz> go ahead.
23:35 <marcoz> i was holding off asking them until I knew what you needed.
23:35 <stukreit> plz send me their emails, I'll ask them.
23:35 <marcoz> will do.
23:36 <+Bart_Massey> Action item: someone needs to track down last year's GSoC money. stukreit, I'll let you check your records and send email if you can't find it?
23:37 <stukreit> ok
23:37 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Two other treasury items?
23:37 <+alanc> should be both our mentoring fee for each GSoC project over the summer and reimbursement for mentor summit travel
23:38 <stukreit> 1) I'm gonna wire txfer Francesco's 284Euro reimbursement. I don't know what hsbc will charge for this. I am soliciting any advice from folks here on international money txfer methods, in particular the rumored ill-fated paypal attempt that failed and kept our money. Any chance we can fix that?
23:38 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Not without a lawsuit AFAICT
23:39 <stukreit> alanc:  as you know I have no short term memory, I'll have to search thru the bank statements
23:39 <+Bart_Massey> I would strongly advise we not deal with Paypal going forward
23:39 <stukreit> I don't understand that, but I'll let it drop, sounds too complicated.
23:39 <+alanc> wasn't the paypal thing like 5-6 years ago now?
23:40 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Several, anyway: I'd guess more like 3-4, but whatever
23:40 <+alanc> was before I was on the board, so at least more than 3
23:40 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Just pay HSBC whatever they charge if that works. We can at least trust real banks with money
23:40 <agd5f> paypal charges a 10% fee on a lot of transactions
23:40 <stukreit> well, I overheard about it but wasn't listening carefully because it wasn't my problem ;-)
23:41 <stukreit> HSBC is charging us some kind of analysis fee every month. I need to call them and demand they stop doing it.
23:41 <+Bart_Massey> keithp: Action item for you; figure out how to bug the usual suspects for more money effectively. We'll talk at lunch tomorrow
23:41 <stukreit> (that was item 3 of 2)
23:41 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: That would be nice
23:42 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Thanks as always for your treasurerizations
23:42 <stukreit> My 2nd issue is that NRAI informs me that we are delinquent in filing  2011 taxes. huh? we've never filed taxes.. so.. 
23:42 <+Bart_Massey> "NRAI"?
23:43 <agd5f> stukreit: delaware corporate taxes?
23:43 <+alanc> I remember having to pay the deleware taxes in the past
23:43 <stukreit> National registered agents, inc. yes, delaware corp tax
23:43 <agd5f> I've got the link for that somewhere.  I paid the taxes myself the last time
23:44 <+alanc> wasn't it like $25/yr or something in that range?
23:44 <stukreit> that would explain at least 1 year of amnesia, but I've Never co-signed such a check
23:44 <+Bart_Massey> OK, so we need to pay our back taxes, and make sure we schedule it going forward
23:44 <agd5f> yeah, something like that
23:44 <+Bart_Massey> agd5f: Thanks huge. Lots of cool people on this Board.
23:45 <agd5f> IIRC, it requires a credit card
23:45 <stukreit> the form says we have till march 2013 to fix it, so, am not stressing
23:45 <+Bart_Massey> agd5f, stukreit: I'll let you two figure out offline how to deal with this. Let the Board know if you need anything.
23:45 <stukreit> yes, just letting it be on the record so you can pester me next time about it.
23:45 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Thanks much
23:45 <stukreit> (the snooze button on my alarm clock is the most-used button)
23:46 <+Bart_Massey> I hereby declare our money and EVoC business tabled for today, unless there are any more urgent issues?
23:46 <marcoz> status on the 2 of the 3 current EVoC students:   mupuf tells me they are off and running.  Ashwin got a bout of food poisoning so was down for about 1/2 of last week.   Supreet started this Monday.  I haven't heard from Jeremey about Jess.
23:46 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Thanks for tracking this
23:46 <marcoz> I guess that should read 2 of the 4. ;)
23:47 <+Bart_Massey> One more item of business: Do we have a process for private Board discussion, shy of the email list?
23:48 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: not that I know of
23:48 <+Bart_Massey> There's a conversation I want to have with the Board, but not in public. (Not a big deal, so don't panic, but something that I'd like to evaluate / consider)
23:48 <+Bart_Massey> I think there are times when this is necessary / appropriate.
23:48 <+Bart_Massey> What do other people think, and what shall we do about it?
23:48 <stukreit> Perhaps you should test the waters with your issue but just talking to 1 or 2 members.
23:48 <+alanc> email or in-person @XDC are the only current ways I know of
23:48 <+Bart_Massey> stukreit: Done that
23:49 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Me too.
23:49 <+emmes> I don't think we have anything in place, less even something "official"
23:49 <+Bart_Massey> OK, just checking.
23:49 <+Bart_Massey> I'll read the Bylaws and see what's currently allowed, and will drop the Board some email RSN.
23:49 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: you're welcome. (bit slow)
23:49 <+Bart_Massey> The Board list is officially private, correct?
23:50 <+alanc> we could probably create a temporary, invite-only channel on some IRC server if needed, or use a google hangout or something
23:50 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Good suggestions
23:50 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, there's no time for more business today I think. Thanks once again to everyone for the great work. Any last minute stuff?
23:50 <+alanc> to the best of my knowledge the board list only has board members subscribed and the archives should only be accessible to board members
23:50 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: perfect thanks
23:50 <+alanc> should be able to verify both of those via the mailman web interface
23:51 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: i'm not that concerned, just wanted to verify that that was the policy
23:51 <+Bart_Massey> move to adjourn!
23:51 <agd5f> +1
23:51 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: I'll ping you on the CFP later.
23:51 <stukreit> +1
23:51 <marcoz> +1 on adjourn
23:51 <+alanc> +1
23:51 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: or call if you prefer
23:52 <+Bart_Massey> Bye all!
23:52 <+emmes> +1
23:52 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: is phone preferable to email?
23:52 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: This week, it's much more likely to get a timely response :-)
23:52 <marcoz> noted.
23:54 <agd5f> just logged into the delaware tax site
23:54 <stukreit> ok. what's it say?
23:54 <agd5f> the normal fee is $25, but since we are late, there is a $125 penalty
23:54 <agd5f> plus 1.5% monthly interest
23:54 <marcoz> ouch
23:55 <+Bart_Massey> fair enough, though
23:55 <agd5f> total amount due $157.50
23:55 <stukreit> ok, I'll pay that asap.  Now now about getting email notice to more than 1 person?
23:55 <agd5f> also, as usual, I need the names and addresses of all board members and officers
23:55 <stukreit> Is this simply a matter of paying the money? or is there a form to file?
23:55 <+alanc> mine is same as last year's
23:56 <agd5f> I'll email the details to the board
23:56 <+alanc> (or same as was in our 501(c)3 form if you have that still)
23:56 <agd5f> please get back to me with your info
23:56 <+alanc> k
23:56 <stukreit> I'm sorry I missed this until the drubbing notice. Need to make sure this doesn't happen again
23:57 <agd5f> we need an address
23:57 <agd5f> IIRC we used SFLC last time, any the notices may have gone there and gotten lost
23:58 <agd5f> *and
23:58 <+alanc> thought we were switching to using Stuart's address for stuff like that
23:58 <agd5f> I'll use that this time
23:58 <stukreit> I would give my address, but then I'd get doubly blamed for biffing this. sigh... I don't want to grow up.
00:00 <+alanc> don't let your kids grow up before you do
00:00 <stukreit> can use my address, but keep in mind that it may change in 6 months. My house is on a corner and I'm doing a 90degree clockwise remodel.
00:00 <agd5f> stukreit: ok
00:01 <stukreit> I will take the responsibility if I can be somewhat assured of a backup.
00:01 <+alanc> sounds like NRAI got the notice as well this time
00:02 <stukreit> ok then, the AI is for me to loginto nrai and figure out how to inject the money.
00:03 <agd5f> stukreit: I sent you the link
00:04 <stukreit> thanks, are we done for now?
00:05 <agd5f> nothing more from me
00:06 <+alanc> i think everyone else already left
00:06 <stukreit> so just one question, agd:
00:06 <agd5f> sure
00:07 <stukreit> Do you think what happened is that the notice came into sflc and no one there informed me (possibly due to 2 changes in persons rep'ing us)? If so, I wonder how nrai finally send the notice to me?
00:08 <agd5f> maybe they tried the sflc and when they got no response, send something to the treasurer
00:08 <stukreit> I have 2 pieces of mail from them:  11/19/11 sent to sflc for statutory representation. I paid that one on the website.
00:08 <agd5f> IIRC, you were listed as treasurer
00:09 <stukreit> then  this one, to me, dated april 23 2012
00:09 <stukreit> ok, anyway, I'll go over there and straighten this out.
00:09 <stukreit> I'll let you go now.
00:11 <agd5f> cool.  let me know if you need a hand with anything
00:11 <stukreit> sure, you've been most helpful and gracious
00:12 <agd5f> might be worth calling them.  I think last time justin called then and they took off the penalty
00:12 <stukreit> ! I'll try that