Date is 2014-06-27, times are UTC+10

--- Day changed Fri Jun 27 2014
06:58 < mupuf> hi guys :)
06:58 < whot_> good morning
06:58 < stukreit> hi
06:58 -!- You're now known as whot
07:00 < agd5f_> hello
07:00 <+egbert> good evening :)
07:01 < mupuf> while we wait for the others to arrive, has everyone looked at the shatter EVoC proposal ?
07:02 <+alanc> good afternoon
07:02 < mupuf> keithp: ping
07:03 < stukreit> the sentences in the proposal are very long
07:03 < keithp> afraid I have a conflict today, but still no SPI updates, for which I'm sorry; I need to be more annoying, it seems
07:04 <+alanc> is the latest version of the EVoC, right?
07:04 < mupuf> keithp: any feedback on the EVoC proposal?
07:04 < keithp> mupuf: haven't read it closely
07:06 < mupuf> too bad, don't forget to fill out your mentor obligations for degasus' project
07:06 < mupuf> or bug eric to do it for you
07:06 < mupuf> but it needs to be completed by tomorrow
07:06 < mupuf> whot: sorry for the hijack, you may start the meeting :)
07:07 < whot> nah, keep going, it's fine. was the first item on the list anyway
07:08 < mupuf> I'm done anyway :p
07:09 < agd5f_> mupuf, looks good to me, although I have to admit, I've paged most of the shatter stuff out of my head over the last few years
07:09 < agd5f_> Dave did most of the work on it, so if he's ok with it, I think it should be ok
07:09 < mupuf> yeah, I was about to say the same
07:11 <+egbert> i'm fine with it. it's ambitious - but that's good.
07:11 -!- marcoz [] has joined #xf-bod
07:12 <+alanc> yeah, if dave's happy with the proposal & happy to mentor, then I'm happy with it
07:12 < stukreit> I agree with egbert. Perhaps his chances of success will be improved if he can be guided to a more confined goal
07:12 < mupuf> marcoz: hi :)
07:12 < marcoz> mupuf: hey. sorry I'm late
07:13 < whot> marcoz: np. topic is the EvoC proposal
07:13 <+egbert> i hope dave finds the time to help if he gets stuck at some point.
07:13 < whot> evoc is 5k in two installments?
07:13 < marcoz> mupuf: thx
07:14 < mupuf> whot: $1.5k per month IIRC
07:15 < stukreit> I'm trying to get Roy's payment out. I misplaced my folder with the atm number. need to look for that at home tonight
07:15 < mupuf> yep, that's what we decided to give to roy
07:15 <+alanc> dave already convinced the applicant to reduce the scope from servers running on HW to just doing in SW w/Xephyr
07:15 < mupuf> alanc: yeah, that's better. Fix X first, push that then go on to hw
07:17 < whot> ok, so what are the admin details on the evoc project then. duration is end of june - end of september
07:17 < agd5f_> yeah, I think so
07:18 < whot> which would make it 3x1.5k, any initial payments? there's a mid-term eval listed, how does that affect things
07:18 < mupuf> whot: well, the mid-term eval will avoid paying the last payment
07:23 < whot> mupuf: i'm trying to get a fixed timeline what needs to be done from our side once we approve. do we have anything more precise than the above?
07:23 < mupuf> whot: marcoz is the EVoC guy ;)
07:23  * mupuf has two months to finish writing his PhD, so, the less I do, the better :D
07:24 < keithp> whot: sounds like we just need actual dates; if EVoC starts on 1-july, then there should be monthly payments 1-aug, 1-sept (and 1-oct?)
07:25 < marcoz> mupuf: I'll support _you_ however I can. :)
07:25 < mupuf> keithp: we got the dates
07:26 < mupuf> June 30th
07:26 < whot> keithp: ok, that sounds like a plan. one optional modification: change the first payment proportionally and hold the second payment back a bit in case the midterm evals fail. not hoping they do, but that would make sense in this timeline
07:26 < whot> otherwise it'll be a payment for the next moth directly before the eval
07:27 < keithp> whot: yeah, should eval *then* pay
07:27 < keithp> when's the mid-term eval date?
07:27 < whot> 4-10 aug, so 10 august most likely
07:28 < keithp> whot: so, the 30-august payment would be dependent on the mid-term, not the 31-july
07:28 < mupuf> ack, but we still should still pay a month upfront, like google
07:28 < keithp> that seems fine
07:28 < keithp> mupuf: iirc, google pays $500 up-front
07:30 < whot> yeah, google pays 500, then the first half after midterm and the other half after final eval
07:30 < mupuf> whot: we can do the same then
07:31 < mupuf> since we don't know this student
07:31 < whot> avoids paying those that drop out once the program starts too much, which happened for us this year
07:32 < keithp> so, $500 up front, then $2000 after mid-term, and $2000 after final eval
07:32 < mupuf> sounds good
07:32 < marcoz> y
07:33 <+alanc> +1
07:33 <+egbert> +1
07:33 < whot> ok, formal vote please: proposal for shatter as linked above, with the payment plan outlined by keithp 
07:33 < stukreit> +1 (but we already agreed to pay Roy $1500+300)
07:33 < whot> +1
07:33 < agd5f_> +1
07:33 < keithp> +1
07:34 < whot> vote passed, thanks guys
07:35 <+alanc> stukreit: we seem to be tailoring payment plans for each proposal right now - maybe someday we'll write down a generalized formula to follow instead of reinventing on the fly each time, but that's not today
07:35 < whot> stukreit: ok, we shouldn't change after the fact. I think we need the evoc rules more stringent and written down somewhere so we don't need to re-think them every time
07:35 < stukreit> yup
07:35 < marcoz> whot: I could have sworn they were written down somewhere on the wiki
07:36 < whot> ok, that should cover the EVoC proposal, any further comments on that? I'll punt the eval etc. to dave as the mentor
07:36 < whot> marcoz: since you're the head evoc, can you send the formal mail out to both student and mentor please
07:37 < marcoz> i will
07:37 < whot> thanks.
07:38 < whot> next item is just a FYI, mainly for the archives: as you saw on the board list, Jake's travel request was acked for the full amount and we're hoping to split this with LF
07:39 < whot> and I think that concludes any items I had on the list here. nothing on SPI as keith said. anything on XDC?
07:39 < mupuf> whot: nothing on XDC
07:42 < whot> anything else to discuss?
07:43 < mupuf> whot: GSoC
07:43 < mupuf> this is the mid-term review period
07:44 < whot> oh, right. Get your evals done, people. I'm sick of receiving 10 reminders via the board list every day :)
07:44 <+alanc> yes, please
07:44 < mupuf> as expected, we failed the student that didn't show up
07:44 < whot> any news on him? is he still alive?
07:45 < mupuf> apparently, we still haven't heard back from him
07:45 < mupuf> Uli also failed his student too (lightweight X compositor, C++ XCB bindings)
07:45 < mupuf> he wasn't satisfied with the attitude of his student
07:46 < agd5f_> apparently google hadn't heard back from him either
07:46 < mupuf> even for payment, yeah
07:47 < whot> hmm, odd
07:47 < whot> Any other known fails?
07:48 <+alanc> I don't remember even seeing anything from Uli's student on xcb irc or email since the start of GSoC
07:49 < mupuf> whot: nope, no other fails
07:49 < mupuf> let's check again
07:50 < mupuf> yeah, eric and keithp are the last ones missing
07:50 < mupuf> for markus (degasus)
07:50 < mupuf> he had a problem with his thesis
07:51 < mupuf> so, he couldn't work for the first 3 weeks
07:51 < mupuf> apparently, he got back to work and has made progress
07:52 < whot> alanc: there are a few mails on the xcb list
07:53 <+alanc> ah, must have forgotten them then
07:53 < mupuf> I'm not sure Uli was right about failing him, but ... the student apparently is very condescending
07:54 < mupuf> he tells his mentor to leave him work on his own :s
07:54 < whot> alanc: welll, there's only 5 or so anyway
07:55 < whot> mupuf: yeah, and that is not acceptable, judging by the comments Uli made in melange it's not about micro-management, it's about him not knowing at all what's happening
07:56 < mupuf> oh, we can read them? I thought it was only for google
07:56 < whot> mupuf: and the comment about "earlier work was lost" is unacceptable too short of a catastrophic backup failure
07:56 < whot> so again, judging by the comments only, I'm behind Uli on this one
07:57 < mupuf> whot: you mean Uli's comments, right?
07:57 < mupuf> not Alexander's
07:57 < mupuf> because we can't read the student reports IIRC
07:58 < whot> correct, I only see Uli's
07:59 < mupuf> right, that's to be expected
07:59 < whot> anyway, so short of the missing eval which needs to get done today btw we seem to be sorted for the second term
08:00 < mupuf> whot: right
08:01 < whot> any other topics?
08:02 < whot> alright, then since our time is up anyway: thanks for joining in, see you guys in two weeks